Beware the relentless bureaucrats
This is a cautionary tale for anyone buying a new or replacement vehicle at a motor trader's (garage to you and me). YOU ARE AT RISK OF RECEIVING A FINE OF £80 or even (perhaps) a visit from debt collectors or, in the extreme, a prison sentence if you allow the garage to do any paperwork on your behalf (i.e. provide an administration service that you might reasonably expect).
I recently (October '07) bought a new car from a local garage who took my old one in part exchange. I left completion of the paperwork (sending off the old and new change of ownership details (Form V53/C) to the DVLA (Driver Vehicle & Licensing Authority)) to the garage staff.
Now, just in case you're thinking the garage was an 'Arthur Dailey' type dodgy deals place,.... It wasn't. It was a main dealership with a high turnover of vehicles (about 10 per week so they tell me).
The first I knew that something might be amiss was back in December '07 when I received a form from DVLA asking me why I hadn't re-registered the car. I filled out the details, told them I had sold it in October and gave the garage details.
Then, on the 4th of February '08 I received a letter (dated 31st January) acknowledging my previous response but saying that I had been issued with a Late Licensing Penalty of £80.
I rang them and spoke to Stephanie. Went through all the details. Could they have lost the form? "Don't think so but even if we did you are still responsible". Was told "Form V53/C is a legal document. You should have read the instructions on the back of section 9 (the yellow part). If you hadn't received an acknowledgement from us within 4 weeks you should have chased us. You are responsible for making sure that we are efficient".
I couldn't believe that, not only are the DVLA refusing to accept that they might make mistakes but they also make the 'customer' responsible for their failures. A typical case of 'Heads I win, tails you loose' thinking.
(Incidentally, the instruction to chase them for an acknowledgement is on the reverse of the yellow part - (remember? that has to be sent to them) - so having sent it you have nothing to put in your 'pending' tray to remind you. Poor form design or what?) Wonder what would have happened if I had died in the interim period? Who would be responsible for either chasing them or paying the fine then? Would they have crushed the car anyway?
I decided to check more facts and rang the garage.
They have a system, all forms go to the DVLA each Friday. The form (yellow part) had not been left in their file accidentally and the form for the new car must have been sent off at the same time because DVLA returned the updated Registration Certificate to me. The garage decided to plead my/their case by letter and faxed the Customer Services Dept of DVLA.
I documented the whole issue and sent an e-mail to the address on the DVLA website. After a day it came back to me saying.........
"Thank you for your email. I am sorry, but DVLA Swansea do not deal with matters of enforcement". (No joined up thinking there then.) "In order to address this issue, please write to the office that has sent the correspondence to you".
I decided that if I wrote, then I might also be responsible for chasing them for a response so I decided to try email again. I was determined to get my thoughts (and anger) in front of someone in authority ASAP so I rang them (at least their phones seem to be fairly well manned).
A very helpful lady told me that 'Enforcement' don't have an email address of their own but you can email 'csm.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk' (Customer Services Manager) I did. Mr Broom, DVLA Customer Services Manager came back with an almost instant response telling me that my 'complaint' had been forwarded to the relevant department and that they would "reply to me within 10 working days".
Great. That conveniently takes us past the early payment deadline of 16th of February when I might still get away with paying £40 instead of £80. (I stress that my paying anything will be under extreme duress. I am currently of the opinion that I would rather go to prison for a few days than pay something which is patently unfair).
It used to be that laws were made to potentially punish the ungodly and dissuade them from transgression. These days it seems to be all about generating revenue and upsetting normally law-abiding citizens.
The morals of the story (if there can be one in this crazy immoral environment)
a)
Don't trust anyone to do anything on your behalf which you may be responsible for;
b)
Get a lawyer to read everything (and accept responsibility for any poor advice) before you sign it then hand deliver it and get a receipt;
c)
Don't assume that having been compliant to the best of your ability that some faceless bureaucrat won't still want to charge you something for a minor infringement (it's almost as if they are on commission for the number of people they upset).
and finally.....
Nil carborundum illegitimii.
7/2/08 am.
I recently (October '07) bought a new car from a local garage who took my old one in part exchange. I left completion of the paperwork (sending off the old and new change of ownership details (Form V53/C) to the DVLA (Driver Vehicle & Licensing Authority)) to the garage staff.
Now, just in case you're thinking the garage was an 'Arthur Dailey' type dodgy deals place,.... It wasn't. It was a main dealership with a high turnover of vehicles (about 10 per week so they tell me).
The first I knew that something might be amiss was back in December '07 when I received a form from DVLA asking me why I hadn't re-registered the car. I filled out the details, told them I had sold it in October and gave the garage details.
Then, on the 4th of February '08 I received a letter (dated 31st January) acknowledging my previous response but saying that I had been issued with a Late Licensing Penalty of £80.
I rang them and spoke to Stephanie. Went through all the details. Could they have lost the form? "Don't think so but even if we did you are still responsible". Was told "Form V53/C is a legal document. You should have read the instructions on the back of section 9 (the yellow part). If you hadn't received an acknowledgement from us within 4 weeks you should have chased us. You are responsible for making sure that we are efficient".
I couldn't believe that, not only are the DVLA refusing to accept that they might make mistakes but they also make the 'customer' responsible for their failures. A typical case of 'Heads I win, tails you loose' thinking.
(Incidentally, the instruction to chase them for an acknowledgement is on the reverse of the yellow part - (remember? that has to be sent to them) - so having sent it you have nothing to put in your 'pending' tray to remind you. Poor form design or what?) Wonder what would have happened if I had died in the interim period? Who would be responsible for either chasing them or paying the fine then? Would they have crushed the car anyway?
I decided to check more facts and rang the garage.
They have a system, all forms go to the DVLA each Friday. The form (yellow part) had not been left in their file accidentally and the form for the new car must have been sent off at the same time because DVLA returned the updated Registration Certificate to me. The garage decided to plead my/their case by letter and faxed the Customer Services Dept of DVLA.
I documented the whole issue and sent an e-mail to the address on the DVLA website. After a day it came back to me saying.........
"Thank you for your email. I am sorry, but DVLA Swansea do not deal with matters of enforcement". (No joined up thinking there then.) "In order to address this issue, please write to the office that has sent the correspondence to you".
I decided that if I wrote, then I might also be responsible for chasing them for a response so I decided to try email again. I was determined to get my thoughts (and anger) in front of someone in authority ASAP so I rang them (at least their phones seem to be fairly well manned).
A very helpful lady told me that 'Enforcement' don't have an email address of their own but you can email 'csm.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk' (Customer Services Manager) I did. Mr Broom, DVLA Customer Services Manager came back with an almost instant response telling me that my 'complaint' had been forwarded to the relevant department and that they would "reply to me within 10 working days".
Great. That conveniently takes us past the early payment deadline of 16th of February when I might still get away with paying £40 instead of £80. (I stress that my paying anything will be under extreme duress. I am currently of the opinion that I would rather go to prison for a few days than pay something which is patently unfair).
It used to be that laws were made to potentially punish the ungodly and dissuade them from transgression. These days it seems to be all about generating revenue and upsetting normally law-abiding citizens.
The morals of the story (if there can be one in this crazy immoral environment)
a)
Don't trust anyone to do anything on your behalf which you may be responsible for;
b)
Get a lawyer to read everything (and accept responsibility for any poor advice) before you sign it then hand deliver it and get a receipt;
c)
Don't assume that having been compliant to the best of your ability that some faceless bureaucrat won't still want to charge you something for a minor infringement (it's almost as if they are on commission for the number of people they upset).
and finally.....
Nil carborundum illegitimii.
7/2/08 am.
Received an email from the DVLA Brand Management Team Central Marketing and Market Research asking me to remove the DVLA logo from the top of this blog entry - have done. Seems that policing things like this are given a higher priority than answering real issues.
7/2/08 pm.
Ever been made to feel that what you have said might be strictly correct but could also be a bit blunt? I have now had several electronic conversaions with a very nice lady (I sincerely hope) from the above dept (Lynne Joseph). Her words, stance and attitude calmed me down considerably. She was reason and logic personified. A great PR spokesperson. Any bosses at the DVLA listening? She deserves either promotion or a raise. Obviously she can't fix the main issue (not her job) but her sympathy was so appreciated.
13/2/08
An acknowledgement for a change of ownership arrived in the post this morning. Great I thought, until I looked at the date - 4/2/08 (it had been forwarded from our old address). So I rang DVLA. No joy. Seems that the acknowledgement has to be BEFORE the original fine letter date to count. The original letter from them was January. I still wait to hear their decision.
19/2/08
Two things happened today in this continuing saga.
First, I opened the post to find yet another letter from Swansea dated 11/2/08 thanking me for advising them of a change of ownership.
Second I received an email dated as today from Poole telling me that due to data protection restrictions they aren't allowed to send a detailed response to my query / complaint via email and that a full written response is in the overland post. Doesn't sound too hopeful otherwise they could just have said "let's forget it". I wait to be surprised. Think I'll send the whole of this diary back to them just in case they don't know in the left hand of Poole what the right hand of Swansea is doing. Will also send an email to Ruth Kelly at Dept for Transport. Don't expect a positive response but you never know.
21/2/08
The jury's decision (their letter dated 19th) arrived today. Someone appears to have gone to a lot of trouble to produce this (it's 3 pages long) but they may have boilerplate text already prepared (if there are a lot of peoople like me). I rang and asked them to fully explain (in a letter) the consequences of my failure to pay this highway robbery and await their advice.
22/2/08
The SAAB garage (Cambridge SAAB for those of you looking for someone who gives REAL customer service) have agreed to pay the fine for me. Great news but slighly diappointing as I was quite looking forward to being someone's 'cell-bitch' for a week or two. No experience is ever wasted and we should take every opportunity to expand our outlook. So, seems like an end to this story (I was becoming VERY bored of it anyway). Onwards and upwards.
posted by GlynWild at
10:01 AM
